Neil Cleary

Neil Cleary
singer, songwriter
Burlington, Vermont

Tottered on: 15 July 2006
Temperature: 89 F
Ceiling: sunny
Ground: grassy
Wind: WSW at 4 mph

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TT with HD: Neil Cleary

[Ed. note: The concert at The Ark referenced below took place on 13 July 2006. It was a triple bill featuring Neil Cleary, Laura Cortese, and Jim Roll. More information on James Kochalka here. ]


HD: I gotta tell you, I'm really glad to see that you're wearing your yellow shoes, because I noticed those at the show.

NC: Yeah, I'm a one-pair-of-shoes guy right now.

HD: Is that the only pair of shoes you have?

NC: They are, they are.

HD: They seem like a special pair of shoes to me, they're definitely making a statement on yellow.

NC: I don't remember where I saw yellow shoes, it was like a subconscious sort of mental note: Buy Yellow Shoes. I came across some in New York and that was it.

HD: And when you say New York, you mean ...

NC: ... in Manhattan.

HD: Is that where you're living now?

NC: Nope, I live in Vermont. And I've lived there for like three years or so.

HD: So you moved back to Vermont after living in New York City.

NC: Yeah. I took a few months elsewhere and did some traveling.

HD: Was that when you were in Austin, Texas?

NC: Yeah. Well, [laugh] the story of my life involves a lot of leaving Burlington and coming back to Burlington. I went to Austin in '97 and then spent some time there again in 2002.

HD: So you maintain an apartment in Burlington?

NC: Around the Burlington area, actually, about a half an hour south in Ferrisburg, Vermont, is where I live in a house with roommates.

HD: Okay, so there's somebody on site to take care of stuff.

NC: It's great. I've been living there, I guess, for a year and a half or close to two. My roommate bought the house and got the girl that he's been in love with for 10 years. They're getting married and they're making their home there. So it's a great place to live in and I always feel like I'm coming back to somebody's home, you know? They have a garden and they've spruced up the place.

HD: Are you even a little bit fearful that they'll decide that one day they're just going to kick you out?

NC: They don't have enough money to kick me out right now! And we all get along really well, too. I think I'm the perfect roommate in that I'm gone a lot and then, when I'm around, it's fun and we all have fun. And I try to contribute.

HD: Well, I noticed that in March of this year you did 18 shows on the road, which is a lot of shows, it seems like to me.

NC: That's with Laura out west, the ones you saw?

HD: I don't know, I was just trying to get a sense of how much you were out on the road performing, I was looking, you know, and it was March 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, I think it was the first ten days of March right in a row you were doing some show or other.

NC: Yeah, the ironic thing about March this year is that we spent a month doing the west coast with Laura and we had a ton of days off. It wasn't what I particularly think of as busy. And I'm not breaking any records in terms of how much or how many shows I play. There are people who do a lot more. Days off on the road are the worst thing.

HD: Because there's just nothing to do?

NC: Yeah. I mean a lot of days off on the road are the worst thing. I guess every six or seven days, you want to take a day or a weekend or something.

HD: Yeah, not every town has a guy with a teeter totter.

NC: Indeed. Yeah, they should.

HD: I should think of it as a public service I'm providing on behalf of the City of Ann Arbor. Any musicians who are coming through who have a day off, they should know there's a teeter totter ...

NC: ... if they want to ride. If they want to rock then, ...

HD: ... well you can't really 'rock', it's more of a teeter. Four or five days ago, you were in Rochester, New York?

NC: Umm hmm.

HD: Do you remember anything about Rochester?

NC: [laugh]

HD: I used to live in Rochester, I'll just tell you.

NC: Oh okay.

HD: I spent an interesting four years in graduate school at the University of Rochester. So you were performing right down the from the Little Theater, which I used to go to. But the actual venue where you performed, I don't know if it's new, or if I just never went there.

NC: It didn't look very new. It was sort of like a corner bar and grill.

HD: So what were your impressions of Rochester?

NC: Rochester. We stayed in a funny hotel that seemed like it was fancy in the 70's and still retained a certain amount of fanciness, but that was odd. Because any hotel that you usually stay in that has any kind of class is some kind of like super high-end thing or part of a luxury chain, and this was neither.

HD: So it was a locally owned outfit?

NC: yeah, yeah, I forget it was called the Strath-?

HD: The Strathmore?

NC: The Strathmore! Because I think we stayed at a place called Strathco in British Columbia in March. You know, it was Strathmore. [Ed. note: it's possible HD and NC actually meant the Strathallan]

HD: So do you even try to keep track of where you've been in some sort of a mental inventory, so that if somebody says, Rochester, New York, what's that like, you're able to say, Okay, x, y, and z, that's Rochester, or x, y, and z, that happened Ann Arbor.

NC: Yup, I can tie it to events, or people, or houses, or stories.

HD: So what is your mental concept of Ann Arbor like?

NC: Well, it started with knowing Jim [Roll] and coming to visit him and getting to know his circle of friends. So that's the root of it. And it sort of expanded around him, to where his friends are my friends now. I have a really nice feeling about Ann Arbor, kind of like I had about Athens [Georgia] about five years ago. I still know a handful of people there. I was playing with bands and doing some recording and just spending time and knew a circle of friends and got there often enough to make it sort of a second home. It was a lot of fun, I still love to go back there. I haven't been back a lot. And so that's my feeling about Ann Arbor now ...

HD: ... so you associate it more with people as opposed to particular venues or stuff that specifically happened?

NC: Yeeeah. People. And I guess if you know enough friendly people, the town seems friendly. If I had been arrested in Ann Arbor, I guess that would be my perspective.

HD: Have you been arrested other places?

NC: No, I haven't.

HD: Is that something you aspire to?

NC: No, knock-on-teeter-totter. No, I don't. I probably had my opportunity in New York when they were arresting people for jumping subways or whatever, drinking in public, and all the things you're supposed to do in New York.

HD: So do you think that seeing the ... Hey, that was pretty good!! [Ed. note: on his 'down' totter cycle, NC plucked his beer bottle from the ground in one smooth motion that did not interrupt the tottering rhythm.]

NC: Yeah, I timed it.

HD: Snatching the beer bottle from the ground, no one's ever pulled that off before.

NC: It's not getting any colder!

HD: Let's see, seeing the Goodyear blimp flyover as close as it did this morning, do you think that will make your personal inventory of things you associate with Ann Arbor? Or will that will just be some weird thing that happened somewhere?

NC: Will I have a dirigible-based view of Ann Arbor?

HD: Yeah.

NC: Probably not, no.

HD: Were you able to see what the message was?

NC: It had something to do with tires. I think Jim did, Jim was studying it ...

HD: ... from my angle, from where I was and the way it was turning, I couldn't see the message, maybe it was on the other side.

NC: I thought maybe it was going to say, Duck and Cover, because Israel has started World War III!

HD: Yeah, that's a whole 'nother topic. Typically we get the Goodyear blimp around football season when they're covering football games and stuff, so I have no idea what's going on around here now that they ...

NC: ... maybe someone was trying to impress a girl, the driver.

HD: A lot of stuff does happen purely for that reason, don't you think?

NC: Oh yeah, yeah.

HD: Well, you've written songs that have addressed that topic?

NC: Yeah. Well, I'm trying to think about an impress-a-girl song ... um, don't really have one of those.

HD: Then let me ask you about this song--I'm not sure of the title, I just remember some of the lyrics from the show--the one where the person being addressed is, I guess, a recently ex-girlfriend, maybe, and the request, directive, is that she call the person she's gone back to and tell them that it's really all over ...

NC: Oh yeah. I want you to leave him.

HD: I want you to leave him, I want you to take all the letters you've written to him and cross out his name and put in my name. There's something really authentic about the level of detail that I found a little disturbing, to be quite honest.

NC: Like finding a stalker's notebook or something?

HD: I don't know, there just seemed to be a real authenticity to it and I assumed that the that song is based somewhat ...

NC: ... in reality. With that, I had the first line "I want you to leave him as soon as you hear this song." And then ...

HD: What is the song title there?

NC: I want you to leave him.

HD: That's not on Numbers Add Up?

NC: It is.

HD: Really?

NC: Yeah, yeah, It is.

HD: Okay.

NC: I forget where it is in the order.

HD: I'll have to listen through it again.

NC: But I had that line. I think I decided to continue with that as sort of the seed of it and try to make it as possessed- and desperate-sounding as I could.

HD: Possessed and desperate is accurate.

NC: Yeah, because you want to take it to its logical extreme, you know.

HD: I wanted to say, Dude, there there, it'll be okay, it'll be alright, you want a beer?

NC: Right, right. I think if people could say all the things that they specifically want--I want you to get out of this lane and from now on ride in the right lane unless you're passing people--and completely speak your piece to someone, you do sound kind of crazy.

HD: There's something to be said for detail. What was the description you used, desperate and ...

NC: ... pathetic? No, possessed.

HD: Possessed, right. Pathetic I wouldn't go with, maybe pitiable. But as far as accurate descriptions, it seems to me that maybe one thing you'd be concerned with, given your line of work, would be that you're accurately described musically for what it is you have to offer people. Something I found from the Toronto Globe and Mail: "He has the mellow tone of a James Taylor and the psychological acidity of a young Elvis Costello."

NC: It's funny that you say that, because right now I can see the Goodyear blimp over your shoulder.

HD: Can you really?!

NC: It's over there, yeah. Here, I'll hold you up so you can see all the way. Over that house there?

HD: No, I can't see it.

NC: It's coming, it's coming over that house.

HD: Is it headed our direction? When it gets closer, you can hold me up.

NC: Are you sure you didn't engineer this as part of the interview?

HD: Oh yes, I'm very powerful.

NC: I don't know, you could be!

HD: So if you had to take that quote comparing you to James Taylor and Elvis Costello and put it against this other one: " ... a slightly less cynical, and prettier-sounding Stephen Merritt."

NC: Wow, who said that?

HD: That was me, who said that.

NC: You're brilliant. Maybe you can see [the blimp] now, because it's making a turn.

HD: Oh my god!

NC: See, look at that! Now what does it say? "What's holding you ... back"

HD: "Seatbelts ... make ... sense" Ha! A public service.

NC: Maybe there's safety restraints you need to have on the teeter totter?

HD: You know, the teeter totter has an unblemished safety record.

NC: I feel like maybe I'm putting myself at risk drinking on the teeter totter. Do you have many beer drinkers on the teeter totter?

HD: Um, there haven't been a lot, but there have been some. You're not going to be issued a TUI or anything like that. But if you had to choose between those two quotes?

NC: I mean those are all people I like, with the qualification that James Taylor is James Taylor. I think that just because of my sinus resonating chamber and skull shape I have a similar sort of voice, or a lot of people have said that. In terms of songwriting, he has a real smoothness, maybe it's just his voice. But I love Elvis Costello and Stephen Merritt, both.

HD: But I take it, though, that it would kind of piss you off if somebody compared you with Rob Thomas?

NC: Um hmm. Good research. Yeah, I'd be curious as to why [somebody would compare me to him].

HD: Just for the record, I don't think anybody has. But yeah, I found some less than flattering things that you had to say about him, or at least about his songwriting, so that's why ... [Ed. note: "... any blowhard with enough self-delusion can squeeze out a song. I mean, look at Rob Thomas ... "

NC: ... but if he can bag a dude like Tom Cruise, though, you know you gotta give him some credit for that [laugh]. No, I don't have anything especially against him, I just came up with him ...

HD: ... as an example of someone who doesn't really have a lot of song-writing talent?

NC: He's trumpeted as a great song writer.

HD: But to be honest, I didn't even know who Rob Thomas was when I found that reference of yours to him in some other interview, and I thought, Rob Thomas? I wonder why Neil hates Rob and who is Rob? So I didn't know who the guy was, which give you an idea of how closely I follow the popular music scene. I probably should have heard of this guy at least. There's a lot of people who feel like that he is a pretty good songwriter.

NC: He's a good songwriter in the sense that he makes up things that make money. I mean, I think Cole Porter was a great songwriter. I don't think Rob Thomas has a lot to do with him. So when they're talking about songwriting in terms of a form and a tradition and a history, I don't think that Rob Thomas is going to be entered into the pantheon. You know, I really think it's funny we're sitting here slagging on Rob Thomas. I was just using him as an example. It's not like I have a personal vendetta against him. But who do I have a personal vendetta against? I can't think of one.

HD: It's to bad that MySpace doesn't also have an Enemies category, as opposed to just Friends.

NC: Yeah, yeah, people that you hate.

HD: So you've got now, what, 344 MySpace Friends?

NC: Once you put yourself there, everybody wants to be your MySpace quote-unquote friend. It's gotten ridiculously random. It's not like I have that many fans or friends.

HD: It's gotten to be a sort of cultural joke, I think. I wonder, though, people do kid about this, about making the Top 8, because there's only slots for your top eight friends, and I could imagine easily that there might be more than eight people who would like to be in your Top 8.

NC: I think that's fun, and I rotate it whenever I have time and inclination on the internet. And I'm always entertained when I see myself on my friends' Top 8, or whatever. It's like giving somebody a present. Everybody's got a site of their own, and it's a networking ... I don't think I have much intelligent stuff to say about MySpace.

HD: MySpace, among other various software platforms and technologies, has been touted as the key to making a really large middle class of musicians as opposed to a superstar class at one end and then Open Mic night at the other. It would be nice to have a healthy middle class of musicians, but I was wondering, have you seen any kind of glimmer that that might be happening?

NC: I only know about and think about MySpace as like a social phenomenon and an internet phenomenon. I haven't used it to try and promote my music or book shows. It was just sort of a whim. So honestly, people talk about how it's revolutionized music or networking or whatever. I still meet people in real life. You never know, because I haven't been in that mode recently of having a new record out and wanting to like get it around. I might use it when it comes time.

HD: So how close is that? You're working on that now, in fact. You put how many hours into that today?

NC: We started, I guess, around 11:00 or noon or something, and worked until around 4:00. I don't really have a very strong work ethic, so that's a lot for me.

HD: So Jim Roll has to whip you into shape?

NC: Jim and I work pretty well together. He's very flexible. He doesn't demand that we start or finish at a certain time. We make gentle suggestions to each other that are usually accepted.

HD: So how close are you to finishing that off?

NC: I always say between two-thirds and three-quarters. Because sometimes the further in you get, the further you have to go. You don't know necessarily where the end is. I think I have everything pretty well tracked. I have 12 songs and I have a working running order, and I don't think we're going to have to record anything new from scratch.

HD: So it's all at the level of mixing at this point? You're not recording anything new?

NC: Vocals need to be done on a bunch of them.

HD: So that's typically the last track you do?

NC: Here's how things have gone. I did a week with Jim in January of 2005. I did two weeks with him in May of this year. And the first time we recorded about five songs. The second time we recorded about seven. And now it's the third time I've been back. And so I think I have most of everything that I want.

HD: So was it a goal to polish it off this time?

NC: This time I'm only here this weekend and Tuesday and Wednesday, so my goal this time is to get three songs totally done and then use that as my sort of calling card to shop it around.

HD: So your demo disk.

NC: Yeah, and I've never done that before, so I'm not sure how it's done. But that's a good start, hopefully.

HD: So at The Ark I noticed what seemed to be recording equipment in the reserved seats?

NC: I don't know. I think there's somebody around here who likes to record shows. He recorded, I don't know if you were at that show at Crazy Wisdom, but there was someone there who did a tape. He made a disk for Jim and made one for me. So I think it's probably that guy.

HD: If that were put out as a CD, I would absolutely buy it.

NC: That's cool. Maybe you should let him know, and maybe he'd make you a copy. I think that's about the level it's at. I don't think we're going to make a double live album out of it or anything.

HD: I don't know, to me, I think that was a special evening. It was special from top to bottom. The MC, even, this guy, ...

NC: ... Jesse Popp.

HD: Yeah, Jesse Popp, with two P's. This guy, he is funny.

NC: Honestly, you know how it happened? We were conceptualizing for this triple bill. And Laura said, I wish we had an MC! And I said, I wish my friend Jesse were back here, who I also know through Jim. And we got to Jim's house and he was downstairs on email and he said, I just got an email from Jesse, he's in town! I think he received it while we were standing there.

HD: Wow.

NC: And so we got in touch with him and that was that. It really was serendipitous.

HD: Is Jesse from around here?

NC: Yeah. He moved to New York about six months ago and apparently is doing pretty well and getting shows and making connections out there.

HD: He has a certain Adam Sandler-esque feel to him.

NC: Really?

HD: I think.

NC: I think maybe that is because he has a vulnerability.

HD: Yeah, maybe. Actually, speaking of that, you yourself project a certain vulnerability on stage. When I watch you playing guitar, ...

NC: ... it's because I'm honestly really scared!

HD: Is that it, really? Well, I was trying to figure out how to convey this to you without making it sound like a criticism, because it's not meant to be. I think it puts the audience on your side. But it's not the typical, 'I'm a rock-star, look how cool I am, I'm playing this guitar don't you wish you could be as cool as me' kind of stance. It's more like you're just concentrating really hard and the expression that I would read into your face would be more like: God, please don't let me fuckit up, please don't let me fuckit up!

NC: [laugh] That's funny.

HD: And you don't fuckit up.

NC: What do I have to say about that? A while ago, thinking about music professionally, I realized how many people had a sort of a shtick, and I don't say that pejoratively, I mean ...

HD: ... they just have some angle ...

NC: ... yeah, they are a character like Ziggy Stardust, or like the White Stripes have their outfit and their story, or you can look at Cat Power. Whether it's shtick or not, they definitely have a sort of fragile, possibly tragic thing going on. The thought definitely crossed my mind, maybe I should put together something interesting, rather than a sort of vaguely formulated authenticity quote-unquote. And that's about where that line of thinking ended. I've commented recently to friends of mine--we were talking about bands just like the catty way that musicians do--the first thing that we notice is how somebody looked, or how somebody dressed, or how somebody talked, or the impression we have of someone, or what we think they'd be like in this situation. And then I realized recently, that that's the first thing we talk about when we see someone, and that's the absolute last thing I think about when performing. Like, I think about what shirt I'm going to wear.

HD: You do?

NC: Yeah.

HD: At the Crazy Wisdom show you were wearing a sports jacket that someone had given you to wear, and I don't know if you were kidding about not being happy to wear it, or what ...

NC: Actually, Sari Brown brought it for me, because I was staying on the couch where she was living at that point. That was sort of serendipitous. I had just gotten given it by a friend like a few nights earlier.

HD: So that was, in fact, your jacket?

NC: That was my jacket and I was happy to be wearing it. I love that jacket, because when I was here last time, I was sort of looking around for stuff to do, and I just looked at the Magic Stick schedule and I saw that Josh Ritter was playing at the Magic Stick. Do you know him at all?

HD: No.

NC: He's a singer-songwriter with a band, really an amazing, amazing writer writer and I got to know his band over the last year. So I called them up and was like, I'm coming to see your show! And it was great to see them. The keyboard player, I toured with him a bit with Erin McKeown last year, played as a trio, she and I. And Zack, the bass player said, I have a present for you! So I got there, and it made me feel cool: the jacket was nice sort of gift.

HD: Do you have that along this time?

NC: No, I don't, I left it at home.

HD: How much stuff do you travel with?

NC: Five of everything. Like five T-shirts and underwear and probably two pairs of pants, and five socks. I pack for a week. My computer, camera.

HD: One topic I wanted to make sure we covered: James Kochalka? I had never heard of him before you mentioned him at The Ark Show, so I looked him up and that's some pretty odd stuff!

NC: Yeah!

HD: Did you know him growing up in Burlington?

NC: No, he's been part of the music scene in Burlington since the late 80's. And I saw him I think first in '94 or '93. So I got to know him through his music and then I got to know his artwork, too. He's had this or that development deal or I forget exactly what there has been. But as a creative entity he has been entertained and contracted by various entertainment forces to do this or that. So he's a well-known comic book artist, too.

HD: His most recent album, you actually contributed musically to it.

NC: Yeah, I play drums on about a third of it.

HD: So do you get anything out of that financially?

NC: He gave me 200 bucks. Which, the whole story of it went, I was living in New York, and my friend, Creston who plays with him, called me up and said, Pascal has to go do something--who played drums--Do you have the weekend free? And I was a big fan of James's and know him and all those guys, but had never had the opportunity to play with them. So I was like, Hell yeah! So I went up to Stamford, Connecticut, where Peter Katis, his friend and producer and engineer lives, and stayed up there for a few days and recorded some drums, just because I had the weekend free, and was just really, really psyched. And then four or five years later, when he finally got money from Ryko, who was going to put it out, we were at a show together and he was like, Oh, here's 200 bucks. That's about how it goes. At least for me at that point in time. If it was somebody I didn't know who asked me to play, I might you know ...

HD: ... say I need a little something for my time now?

NC: Yeah, exactly.

HD: So you played drums on that album primarily. At The Ark you played five or six different instruments. And then, listening through some of the stuff I found online, there's this song where you actually whistle on, Bedford Avenue?

NC: Oh, uh huh, yes.

HD: I couldn't find a Bedford Avenue in Burlington. Where is that?

NC: It's in Brooklyn, in the Williamsburg area.

HD: Hmm. That's why. Probably if I go back and listen to the lyrics a little more closely I could figure that out.

NC: That's alright. I think there's a subway train reference in the song, but that's about it.

HD: So in 2001, your favorite instrument was the piano. Has that changed?

NC: I think it's still my favorite instrument.

HD: Is that what you started with?

NC: That and drums pretty close to each other. But I took like piano lessons as a kid, I still think that's the best instrument to start on.

HD: Just in general?

NC: That and I think everybody should play drums.

HD: Everybody should play drums?

NC: Yeah, every musician. Every musician should play piano and drums. Seriously, because piano has an amazing visual representation of where notes are and if you're playing something on guitar--I guess it's the same for violin--you want to visualize how a chord is formed or something, and that is a great picture reference, the piano. You can see the keyboard. And I think every musician should play drums, because if you're a musician without rhythm, then you know ...

HD: I wanted to ask you, at The Ark show, this was before the clogging happened, during Laura's set. There was a piece where she turned to you and she began stomping on the stage, and there seemed to be some communication to you, who were playing drums, and she was stomping and I was trying to figure out if ...

NC: ... whether she was pissed off?

HD: Well, not pissed off, but it seemed to me she was trying to up the tempo.

NC: Yeah, I know the tunes you're thinking about. There's a couple traditional tunes she puts in a row and in one of them, there's a distinct break between them. There's a different feel or a different tempo between the two. You know, she just stomps, because she's full of spunk!

HD: So she wasn't trying to say to you, Hey, you need to pick up the pace ...

NC: No, she can't help herself, God save her.

HD: Well, and then she went over and actually busted out her own clogging routine, that was every bit the equal of that young guy, was his name Nick?

NC: Yeah, I think so, he's a friend of Laura's.

HD: That was impressive.

NC: She's part of this whole world of fiddle camp, traditional music world. Because that's how she started playing fiddle. She was, I don't think, particularly musical or anything, or maybe took some violin lessons. And then she went to fiddle camp, which for a bunch of people that she knows turned them on to music, period. And they got so excited, that that's all they wanted to do and pursue careers in it. She also then took step dancing and now she teaches step dancing and fiddle at different fiddle camps. Before, I wasn't really aware of that as a sort of life-altering thing.

HD: So was there anything else on your mind today as we sit here and teeter totter? It's freakin' hot, don't you think?

NC: I think it's beautiful in the shade.

HD: Well, it's not as hot as it would be in the sun.

NC: What's on my mind. I was just talking to Jim. Jim and I were having a really esoteric conversation about what's happening in Israel and Lebanon and stuff these days. You know, it taps into my normal, natural anxious tendencies for catastrophe and counting down to the apocalypse. And I was asking him what he thought about the idea that the view of time in the modern world right now lends itself to anxiety. Like, if you think that time is linear, and has a one single strand, and goes from a beginning to an end, then naturally there's going to be an end and an apocalypse. And it's all working up to something and so we're all going to be on fire with this crazy anxiety, you know, unable to just live and enjoy it.

HD: Did you guys manage to get a song out of this?

NC: [laugh] No, this was on our break. But I was wondering, I think anxiety must be lower if we took a view of time as an endless, cyclical, self-renewing phenomenon. If it's a linear phenomenon, that equals anxiety. But if it's a cyclical, many-faceted, many-leveled, experience, then ...

HD: ... do you think that maybe it has something to do with our conception of how we move through time, whether it's linear or cyclical, is that we're facing forward? I think there's some indigenous cultures--I don't think there's a lot of them, maybe there's only one, but I think it is attested--that conceive of moving through time with the future in back of you because you can't see the future. What you can see is the past, so you don't look ahead into the future. Because you can't do that, because you don't know what's going to happen. And I think that maybe if we had this concept of, the future's behind us and we can't see it, that maybe that might reduce our anxiety. What are you going to do about it? You can't see it, you're just going to bump into it when it happens.

NC: Or it's ahead of you sometimes or sometimes it's behind you. That reminds me of something George Harrison said, he said, I seriously believe that the 60's was the future. It wasn't the past and we've since gone to some other area and I'm still waiting for it to come.

HD: Waiting for it to come around again?

NC: Yeah, or like it was a preview. Or I don't know how he thought of it. So that's what's on my mind. That, and girls.

HD: Multiple girls?

NC: No, just as a concept. I want to bring it back down to earth. I don't have my heads in the clouds all the time.

HD: Fair enough. Well, listen, thanks for coming over to teeter totter with me.

NC: Thanks for having me over. It was an honor.

HD: The honor is all mine.